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Opinion: are you (un)happy about multi-generation consoles

Discussion in 'Xbox One Chat' started by XDonny, Apr 16, 2017.

  1. XDonny

    XDonny l337

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    Read this article first...

    http://www.inquisitr.com/4149876/wh...-xbox-scorpios-multi-generation-plans-for-e3/

    What is your opinion about Scorpio's multi-generation approach...

    I'll give my two cents after the first couple replies as to not sway ppl in a certain direction
    [MENTION=11847]Sorethumbed[/MENTION], thanks buddy, posted the right link. One was referring to a guy that had same idea as me and put a question to the article too xD
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  2. Lethal_NFS

    Lethal_NFS coder

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    I love these multi-gen consoles. But I also love getting new consoles.
     
  3. Sorethumbed

    Sorethumbed #hacker

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    As a long time PC user, I'm used to upgrading hardware and am pretty good at it. I can understand, however, where pure console gamers are coming from and can understand why some are pissed about it.

    Personally I don't care, what's the difference as long as it runs the games you want to play. A console to span multi generations that evolves or could be evolved, swhat I'm used to.

    I have said for ages that Microsoft would blur the lines to the point that the Xbox becomes a PC. It's what Microsoft understands, it reduces costs in their development cycle in software/UI etc. For Microsoft, the nirvana would be a PC that sits under your TV and YOU called it a console but in every respect was actually a PC that ran a standard (albeit locked down) version of their standard os. Like windows with achievements (OH, yeah, you can get those with play anywhere - see where it's going). From my perspective, it will mean less outlay and if consoles could run ALL PC games - bonus.

    That would kinda make it like a PC whereby as time goes on, your old box still runs the older games but needs to be dialled down to run thenewer ones? For devs, that's the easiest stuff to deal with. It's multi user, multi network, multi simultaneous stupids that they seem to have difficulty with.

    XD the link didn't work for me but there was another link on the page it called to another article, guess that was the one you were referring to?

    Having read, now, the working link (thx bud) the nub of the question is:

    “Here’s the problem, even with consoles today, there is no guarantee your game is going to work as expected. There have been a plethora of articles and reports about games with massive stuttering issues, terrible FPS drops, corrupted save games, updates deleting your progress, etc.
    “On top of that, the distinction between console and PC shrinks with every generation. The ease of use and convenience of a console simply doesn’t exist anymore with proliferation of day 1 patches, game updates, firmware updates and requiring constant internet connection for most functionality and features.”

    Neither of those are an issue with an 'evolving' console but actually an issue with development cycles for more and more complex games and 'cloud computing' problems. Let's face it, I was a LOT happier when you saved a gme locally and if you wanted it portable you copied it to a stick.

    Also, see remarks above re stupids. more complexity means more chance of problems
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  4. Arnibarani

    Arnibarani l337

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    Link doesn't work.

    It's not just Microsoft doing a mid generation refresh with Scorpio.Sony have done the same with the Pro. It's looking like consoles may have caught upto other electronics/gadgets. New technologies come out & you either move along with it or get left behind by the competition. But with these mid refreshes from Microsoft & Sony it's just an option & nothing forced. If your content with your Day One system, stay with it. If you want to upgrade do so. I like that approach from both companies, nobody is left behind this generation you just have more Choice/options

    Edit

    2nd link works fine
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  5. TeknoBlast

    TeknoBlast Super Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sour that we have multi-gen consoles. I like something new and better hardware, but as long as they play my old games. That would be my only concern. Since MS is planning to make games BC and forward compatible, maybe those worries are gone.

    This is no different when GPU makers release a new GPU every few months, except this is an entire gaming console hardware compared to one part of a PC. So I dont understand the sourness of having a multi-gen console when the GPU landscape does the same thing.

    Now people may argue about the cost between a single GPU card and an entire console. Well if you compare the prices for a pretty good GPU and price of the top tier console, it pretty much comes out the same price, give or take a few bucks. And yes, there are some people out there that purchase new GPUs every few months just to have the latest and greatest.


    As for added features like TV or other entertainment outside of games, I welcome it. I dont know about you guys, but I dont like having multiple devices cluttering up my TV center.

    As some of you may know already, I have an Xbox One in the living room which my family and visitors use. In that TV center, that's all I have, the Xbox One and TV. So cutting down on devices in my TV center because the Xbox One can do everything is a blessing. I dont understand how people can hate on this. My center used to be cluttered with and Xbox 360, Apple TV, Boxee Box and a stand alone BD player. Since adding the Xbox One, all those listed devices have been sold off.

    Yeah, it's great that a box can do just gaming because that's what one expects. However, tech and consoles are way beyond that and I welcome any new features that's outside of gaming.
     
  6. XDonny

    XDonny l337

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    Okay thanks for the responses guys. Now I'll give my two cents.

    First what: My reaction on what's said in the article.

    Well the article speaks about multigenerational gaming which basically means that a device can play multiple generation of games (Xbox One with it's Xbox One games and Backward Compatibility games) and PS4 with it's PS4 games and PS3 games available through PS Now. So everyone basically likes this. The fact that current gen consoles can play current gen games (duh) and as an added bonus that they can play last gen content with minor - expansive patching/service. This is all good.

    The problem they adress in the article is that gamers don't like mid-generation consoles like the PS4 Pro and the upcoming Scorpio. Reasons given:

    1) They might not be compatible to really play the current gen games in a good way
    2) They look as though they're trying to bridge the gap between consoles and pc.

    Okay so for the first point. Are you kidding me? The name even says it. 'Mid-generation console'. They are brought in the middle of the current generation cycle of consoles. They are hardware upgrades that are (supposed) to deliver a better gaming experience. How in the hell will it not play at least the same as the vanilla consoles released in the beginning of the new generation. So far I haven't seen/heard of a single PS4 game running worse on the PS4 Pro than on a Day 1 PS4. I'm not talking about the Boost Mode or other enhancement that are caused by patching, cause that's on the dev. I'm talking bout a game that has been released without patching where a PS4 Pro sucks where a normal PS4 doesn't. Why is that I wonder (you may correct me if you heard about such a game tho), hmmm, it might be due to the fact that the hardware/architecture of the PS4 Pro (yes, I'm mostly gonna talk about that console since the Scorpio's not out yet) isn't that different from the normal PS4. That means that it's very unlikely that with upgraded hardware that the PS4 Pro will struggle with a game whereas the PS4 won't.
    Seriously, not compatible to play current gen games. The thing is made for current gen games. If it's not compatible with last gen games, that's a different issue, but this...

    The Scorpio is a class apart, cause Phil Spencer talked about it being made to also be compatible with next gen games. This is just a bonus. Of course the normal Xbox One will also be able to play next gen games, but it's not made with the thought to play those games /for long. The Scorpio is and that just shows that it's not just a mere upgrade for current gen games, but it'll also have a strong prescence in the future of console games. If it pulls it off, how can you be mad about having a console that stretches 3 console generation games (unless your for team Sony and just wanna be more salty than iced out roads). If it can't handle next gen... (Or this gen/last gen games actually... =_=) for instance, that's another case.

    Point 2: this one's valid. People complaining that the current idea of bridging the gap is not good or something they don't want. You can twist and turn about this so I'll cover both sides and use me as an example.

    A while back there was an animeted show called Happy Hour Saloon which was an animated short that talked about games and in the first episode the dude was actually referring to the fact that current consoles are more like multimedia consoles than real gaming consoles. That was actually the pitch that MS first had for their X1 and that ppl raged about.

    Some people don't want their consoles to be able to do things that the pc is designed for like browsing the internet, going on youtube or anything not game-related. I don't like change either. I don't use my xbox for anything than gaming such as watching youtube or being on the internet. People are paying for things in a console that they will never or rarely use. So it's a valid point that they don't want their consoles so closely resembling pc capacity, but much more limited.

    Next to that is that pc hardware grows every year. Every year/few years there's a new GPU (graphics card) and same can be said bout a lot of pc components. To game with the latest graphics and to be up on the hill, you will likely run a few hundred bucks every year/few years to stay on your game. The console faction didn't have that problem. It was every 6-8 years there would be a new console and you had to wait to get the newest console. Now in 3/4 years there's a new beefed up version available that'll make your games look better, play better and might even ask how your day was. That's resembling the pc faction. But there's one difference, for PCs it's almost necessarry to upgrade every few years if you have a low/mid gaming pc or else your system might not run games 6/7 years later or really graphic demanding games after 3/4 years on the same medium setting. The same can't be said consoles. They are made to play games well after 7/8 years. It might not always be running the way you like, but they will play them. That means that it's not necessarry to buy the PS4 Pro or the Scorpio, no matter what anyone says. The option is there if you want it, but you don't have to take it and justifying your actions with 'my Xbox One will probably not play halo 7/8', cause you know you're full of crocodile feces if it says it'll play on the console.

    On the other hand you have ppl who like having an all in one box. Why? Cause it's convenient if you're a console gamer without a (good) pc. You don't have to get up to go to your pc and wait for it to boot up just to watch your latest installment of your favorite Youtube show, when you can just as easily watch it on your tv with a much bigger screen. Basically that's it for this section, it's convenient to have it all in one. It's like the saying says 'better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it'.

    This was in response to the article and the ppl described in the article. Now what are my thoughts. I've sorta said it already. It's your prerogative to stand where you want. Be it against or for multi-generational consoles. If you don't want to buy it then don't do it, but if you're gonna complain about it and cost or such, better have some valid reasons to be against it and not say things like compatibility for last gen/current gen games.

    My two cents guys... If you've come this far you really wanted to read xD
     
  7. ShoneD

    ShoneD n00b

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    I don't mind the whole multi generation thing. As long as they're working on the next generation as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  8. Sorethumbed

    Sorethumbed #hacker

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    I think the whole point is that there won't BE any 'next gen' console. It will just be a gradual evolution AKA PCs. As new consoles evolve they will just develop better capabilities whereas older consoles will be less able to play new games, yes, they probably WILL play them but with reduced framerate, graphics etc.
     
  9. XDonny

    XDonny l337

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    I 80% agree with you on your point, but that was the intention I think since the last console generation. Or maybe even since the beginning of using dedicated graphics cards.

    It was always inching towards the pc section. First consoles only delivered games. The PS1 delivered games and if I remember correctly, also music. PS2/OXB played games, music and movies. PS3 bluray as added bonus. And now with current ones they don't have a 'gaming architecture' inside anymore but a full-on pc architecture.

    I dont necessarily see them becoming PCs tho. Yes they are actually turning into them, but if we think what PCs are, a lot of things nowadays are PCs. Tablets, smartphones, hell even some high end wearables are PCs. It's just the branding it gets. The consoles have heavily modified gaming intestines which makes them consoles. Same cannot be said for real PCs. You can 'modify' the gpu/ram/cpu, but they still have as function to power your PC as a PC and not as a console (if that makes sense).

    i do however believe your second point. Seeing as these consoles have an x86 archistructure inside, I wont see them leaving it for another one anytime soon which likely means the games of the next generation will run on X1/PS4 but like you said, more poorly, unless a new technology will allow them to run smoothly. Just like in old PCs running new games.
     
  10. PepperNY

    PepperNY leveled up

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    I am a multi platform user like I am sure alot of you are. I game on PC, Xbox and Playstation but I started out on PC so my opinion I am sure differs from the normal console owner. I see no difference between what Microsoft is doing for the Xbox vs what Nvidia does for the PC except instead of a new GPU you are getting a new box with upgraded hardware. No one is being forced to buy these new consoles but I do see a point in time where their will be games that wont run on the older boxes just like with PC. I was getting the feeling that with the Play anywhere titles that I can see a point in time where Xbox will be phased out as a console and everything will be moved to PC. For people that own a gaming PC I dont even see the point of owning an Xbox since all of their exclusives are now available on PC via the suck ass Windows store lol. Time will tell tho but I really like the direction Phil Spencer is going just wish we would see more exclusives from Xbox
     
  11. Sorethumbed

    Sorethumbed #hacker

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    Kinda see where you're going and agree with most of it (see comments above). Main reason to own an Xbox as opposed to a PC is in the lounge it's a lot quieter. I keep my jet engine in my study (den).
     
  12. XDonny

    XDonny l337

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    Well sir, there aren't 'quiet work PCs' for nothing. They are mouse silent and since they are catered for business ppl who need their concentration, they are really, really quiet.
    Gaming PCs can be like that too, if you know which parts to get and how to modify your pc, you can build it yourself too!
     
  13. Sorethumbed

    Sorethumbed #hacker

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    Yup, as long as you are prepared to spend a small fortune and build a Thermonuclear cooling tower in your basement. This next gen GPU should improve things but when high graphics kick in currently, my GPU readies itself for an extremely short runway takeoff.
     
  14. XDonny

    XDonny l337

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    Indeed, you need to spend a lil more to get the components. Even the beginclass of those PCs are close to a thousand bucks and thats with Apple internals. Damn aged components. If you want it upgraded, well just like Apple things, be ready to spend.

    But you know what they say. You gotta spend money to have serenity xD
     
  15. Sorethumbed

    Sorethumbed #hacker

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    I used to have a 'Quiet' PC (the seller called Quiet). Almost solid block of aluminium for a case, fins like a 60's American car, fanless coolers (blocks bolted to the CPU/GPU) connected by cooling rods to the case and a total bi..h to work on. The case cost like $600 at the time and assembly was 'challenging'. When I needed to upgrade I sold it as I couldn't be bothered to take it apart again. I thought about building a liquid cooled machine but then I got ill and bought an Xbox. After that, for what little PC gaming I do I put up with the noise. It's OK at 1080p but when you go over and dial it up......
     

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